Episode 17: Quantum Chaos and Cosmic Dust

LUKE: All right, welcome back. It's early Friday morning. This is supposed to be Thursday

night, but I got distracted, so sue me. This is Luke at the Roost. It's

your late night call-in radio show where you can call in and ask me about

what's on your mind. The number, if you'd like to call, is 208-439. 5853. That's

208-439 Luke. gonna take some calls because that's what we do. So first up on

the line here we have Mitch. Mitch welcome to the show. What are you calling

in for tonight?

MITCH: Hey Luke, thanks for taking the call. So I'm sitting here in my garage

at midnight watching a YouTube video about quantum physics and I think it might be

ruining my marriage.

LUKE: Well you know if we're all being honest quantum physics is ruining everything. Right?

MITCH: No, that particles exist in like all possible states at once until somebody looks

at them and then they just pick one. And I can't stop thinking about how

that's exactly what happened with me and my wife tonight. We had this huge fight

about whether to loan my brother money for a food truck. And it's like we

were both existing in all these different versions of the argument until we actually had

it. And now we're locked into this one where she thinks I'm an idiot and

I'm hiding in the garage eating crackers.

LUKE: All right, well if you're thinking about giving your brother money for a food

truck, you probably are an idiot. Why is everybody want a food truck these days?

Everybody's got a brother that's trying to start a food truck. You have a different

idea. Jesus. There's enough.

MITCH: Oh man, I know. But here's the thing. Darrell's actually a really good cook,

like legitimately good. He did this pop-up thing at a brewery last summer and sold

out in two hours.

LUKE: Was it a fusion?

MITCH: No, thank God. It's barbecue. Proper barbecue. He's been working on his brisket for

like three years. But yeah, Angie says he's a burnout because he's had like four

different jobs in the last two years. And I get it, but I also think,

I don't know, man. Maybe he just hasn't found his thing yet. He's 32.

LUKE: Okay, well, I have a couple of questions. Has he asked you for money

before for other ideas?

MITCH: Yeah, twice. There was this landscaping company thing that lasted like six months, houses,

which yeah, that one didn't even get off the ground. But Luke, the barbecue thing

is different.

LUKE: Okay, and it might be different. And my next question is, do you have

the money to lend him?

MITCH: I mean, we have it. We've got like 15 grand saved up that was

supposed to be for redoing the kitchen. Angie's been planning that for two years.

LUKE: Well, your brother wants to start a food truck. He's 32 years old, and

you've already given him money for two failed businesses. Your wife wants to redo the

kitchen. You've been saving money for that. So no. I mean, my advice is don't

give your brother the money. That's insane.

MITCH: Yeah, but see, that's the thing. I didn't actually give him money those other

times. I just told him I would, and then Angie talked me out of it

both times. And now he's got this whole business plan printed out. He's got a

truck lined up. He just needs 12 grand for the equipment and permits and wrapping

it. And I keep thinking, like, what if this is actually the one?

LUKE: Maybe it is, but it's not your one. It's your brother's one. And first

of all, are you sure that you would get your money back? That's an important

bit. And also, anybody can put a business together, put a business plan together in

like 36 seconds with ChatGBTBT today. And it doesn't really take a lot of effort

or foresight to look for a vehicle on Facebook Marketplace. So it's not like he's

done a whole lot of work here to get started. I wouldn't give him the

money.

MITCH: I mean, you're probably right. It's just, God, you should see him when he

talks about it. He gets this look like he actually believes in something for once.

And I keep thinking about that quantum physics thing. Like maybe he's in this state

where he could be successful or he could fail, but until someone actually gives him

a shot, we'll never know which one he is.

LUKE: No, that's not how it works, sir. Particles are in a state of superposition

until somebody measures them. that's not giving them a chance, right? So he could be

in a state of failure and success until you see which one he does. That

doesn't require you giving him money.

MITCH: Okay, fair. That's... Yeah, that's fair. I guess I'm trying to make physics justify

me wanting to help my little brother. But here's what really gets me. Angie said

something last night that I can't stop thinking about. She said, you're not trying to

save Daryl. You're trying to prove something to your dad. four years, so that really

messed me up.

LUKE: Did it mess you up because you know that it's true?

MITCH: Yeah, yeah, it did. Because my dad always said Daryl would never amount to

anything, and I always defended him. Like every Sunday dinner, it was the same thing.

Dad would go off about how Daryl was wasting his potential, and I'd be the

one saying, give him time, he just needs to find his thing. And now Dad's

gone, and Daryl's still, you know?

LUKE: Well, it's been 32 years. So Darrell's had ample opportunity to make something happen.

And maybe now's the time. I'm not saying that he can't make a food truck

happen. I'm just saying it's not your responsibility to buy that for him. And your

wife clearly doesn't want you to. And it's more important that you support her than

you support him.

MITCH: You're right. I know you're right. It's just going to kill me to tell

him no.

LUKE: Well, he's going to have to learn some things to be successful about business

and about life and about fundraising. suggestion to you would be to help him raise

the money himself and be proud and have something to lose in this business that

isn't yours.

MITCH: Huh, that's actually that might work. Like help him figure out how to pitch

investors or do a Kickstarter or something. So he's got some skin in the game

because you're right. If it's my 12 grand, what does he have to lose?

LUKE: Yeah man, that's an awful expensive rack

MITCH: Ha, yeah, exactly. Man, Angie's going to be relieved. I've been avoiding going back

inside because I didn't want to keep fighting about it. Maybe I should actually go

tell her you talk some sense into me before she wakes up still mad.

LUKE: All right, sir, you go do that. You have a wonderful night, and congratulations

for reclaiming the marriage and keeping the wife happy. That's always a good thing to

do. And don't give your brother the money. Help him out where you can, but

make him do the work.

MITCH: I appreciate it, Luke. Seriously. I was sitting out here in my garage eating

crackers and spiraling. And you just, yeah.

LUKE: All right, buddy, well, you enjoy your crackers and stay out of trouble, okay?

Next up on the line we have Tamika. Tamika, welcome to the radio show. How

are you tonight?

TAMIKA: Oh, man, I'm kind of losing my mind a little bit, Luke. I just

spent the last three hours reading about the great attractor. And I can't stop thinking

about it.

LUKE: Okay, then tell me about the great attractor.

TAMIKA: Okay, so it's this massive gravitational anomaly out in space that we can't even

see because it's behind the Milky Way, but it's pulling our entire galaxy toward it

at like 600 kilometers per. Everything. The sun, the Earth, all of it, is just

being dragged toward this thing that's so big and so far away, we don't even

know what it is. And I'm sitting here in the office at the Galaxy Diner

at midnight trying to close out the register. And I just keep thinking, how does

anybody just go about their day knowing this?

LUKE: Well, like you said, we don't know. We don't know it. We don't know

what it is. We don't know what it's doing or why. And it's too far

away for us to see. So everybody's going about their life because there's nothing we

can do about it. And we don't know and probably will never know what it

is.

TAMIKA: But that's what's getting me, though. Like, we do know it's there. Scientists know

it's there. They can measure it. They can see what it's doing to us. We

just can't see the thing itself.

TAMIKA: And yeah, there's nothing we can do about it. But doesn't that make it

worse? Like, I'm supposed to go home, and my mom's asleep in front of the

TV with her pill organizer on the counter. And I'm going to wake up tomorrow

and flip the diner sign back on. And meanwhile, the entire galaxy is just... Just

moving, just moving and not affecting your life in any way.

LUKE: But there are things that we're we know exist and they're called black holes

and they do exactly that. So it wouldn't be surprising to learn that the great

attractor is giant black hole that we can't see.

TAMIKA: Okay, but see, that's even worse because black holes, we at least understand the

concept. They're a thing. They eat stuff, whatever. But this is different.

LUKE: How is it different? It could be exactly a black hole. It could just

be a thing that eats stuff.

TAMIKA: But it's not eating us though. It's just pulling us. For Bill, millions of

years. We've been moving toward this thing our whole lives. Everyone who's ever lived has

been moving toward it. And we just found out about it in like the 1970s.

And I guess what's really messing me up is, what else is like that? What

else is just happening to us that we can't see and can't do anything about?

And we're just supposed to act like it's fine.

LUKE: Well, it is fine. And lots of things are acting on us that we

can't see every day. And we know that. And think about it. like an ear

of corn on your plate, right? So you've got this nice dinner. You've got an

ear of corn there. You can't eat that ear of corn until you've pulled it

towards yourself. So it could very well just be a faraway black hole pulling us

towards itself on its way to eat us.

TAMIKA: Oh, great. So we're dinner. That's really comforting, Luke. No, but okay. I hear

what you're saying. Things are always acting on us we can't see. Gravity, radiation, whatever.

But those things we learned about in school, you know? We grew up knowing about

them.

LUKE: Yeah, we also grew up knowing about the food pyramid in school. And I

don't know if you've heard about that lately, but it's completely different now because it's

bullshit.

TAMIKA: Exactly. See, that's what I'm saying. They told us for decades to eat a

certain way. And it turns out it was completely wrong. And now we're finding out

our entire galaxy is being pulled towards something we can't identify. And like, what are?

What else are they going to tell us in 20 years that completely changes everything

we thought we knew?

LUKE: Tons of stuff, but the point is, at the end of the day, it

doesn't really affect your life. It's not going to pull us anywhere in our lifetimes.

We're talking about billions of years out into the future. We'll have killed ourselves off

long before then. We're almost there already.

TAMIKA: Okay, but that's not making me feel better. You're basically saying, don't worry about

the great attractor because we'll probably nuke ourselves. first. Like, is that supposed to help

me close out the register and go home? And I don't know. Maybe it's not

even really about the great attractor. Maybe it's about...

LUKE: That's exactly what I'm saying. I'm saying, don't worry about the great attractor, because

it's not going to pose a threat for billions of years, and we're all going

to be dead one way or another. And the entire human race is almost certainly

going to be dead before then. So what is it about to you?

TAMIKA: It's that I can't stop thinking about my mom. She's asleep right now in

front of the TV with her pill organizer on the counter, and tomorrow she's going

to wake up and make coffee and ask me if I remembered to defrost the

chicken. And meanwhile, we're hurtling through space toward this massive invisible thing, and she has

no idea, and it doesn't matter, because what matters to her is whether I defrosted

the chicken. And I'm supposed to just do that? Just go home and defrost chicken

and pay the electric bill and show up for my shifts while knowing that none

of it means anything in the grand scheme.

LUKE: That is correct. That's exactly what you're supposed to do because you're going to

have to eat tomorrow and chicken is tasty. So I would recommend that you defrost

the chicken and help your mom out. And don't worry about what's going to happen

to the fate of the planet a billion years from now.

TAMIKA: But how do you just do that? How do you just decide that the

small stuff matters when you know it doesn't? Like, I'm standing here in this restaurant

office at 12. 12.30 in the morning, counting 20s, and making sure the drawer balances,

and part of me knows that's important because rent is due, and my mom needs

her prescriptions. But the other part of me is like, why are we pretending any

of this is real?

LUKE: That is 100% the reason we're pretending. We know it's not real. Everything that

we see and touch and smell, it's all a interpretation by our brains. We know

that it's not reality. Like, that's not even a question. But we do it anyway.

and we care about things like de-frosting the chicken because we get hungry and we

need to eat.

TAMIKA: Oh, God, you're right. I sound insane. I'm having an existential crisis over Wikipedia

at midnight when I should just be going home. It's just, I think I've been

feeling this way for a while, and the great-att-tractor thing just gave me something to

pin it on, you know? Like, my mom's getting older and I'm working the same

job I had in college, and I keep thinking, when does the real part start?

And maybe it never does.

LUKE: It starts when you decide it does. It starts when you decide, you know,

what is important to you and your time here on this earth. And maybe it's

figuring out deep secrets of the cosmos and putting your hat in the ring of

academia. Who knows what that is to you? But I think the reason to be

here is to enjoy the moments that you have here as much as you can

and watch the universe do what it does. the opportunity to have been on this

planet before it was eaten.

TAMIKA: Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I think I needed to hear that. I've been so stuck

in my head about what I'm supposed to be doing that I forgot to just

be here.

LUKE: Be here now. That's what our friend Ram Dass always said. And if you're

looking for some meaning in your life beyond no meaning at all, maybe look up

what Mr. Richard Albert had said. say because it was pretty interesting too.

TAMIKA: I will. I'm going to write that down. Ram Dass, write, be here now.

That's actually perfect because I've literally been everywhere except here for the past three hours.

LUKE: Well, I think if you listen to most any sort of self-help spiritual guru,

they're going to tell you in different words that same thing. It's to focus on

the most moment in front of you because that's the only one that you have.

It's the only one that matters. That's the point. So if you're worried about what's

going to happen a billion years from now, then you're missing what's happening now.

TAMIKA: You're right. God, I'm going to go home and defrost that chicken and maybe

actually sit with my mom tomorrow instead of scrolling through my phone while she watches

her shows. Thank you, Luke. I really needed this tonight.

LUKE: Not a problem there. that's what I do. And good luck not getting eaten

by the great attractor. I believe in you. I think you can, I think you're

going to make it. And now we have to, I'm sorry, but we have to

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Use code breathe for 15% off. Mediocre CPAP. Not perfect. Not elegant. Just trying. A

very special thanks to Mediocre CPAP for sponsoring this segment of the show. And next

up on the radio show, we have Rodney. Rodney, what's happening? What are you calling

in for?

RODNEY: Hey, Luke. So, my wife's sister told me at Thanksgiving that Marie deserves better

than a guy who still works with his hands at 57. And I haven't been

able to get it out of my head since. Three weeks now.

LUKE: Well, you should be grateful that you can still work with your hands at

57, sir.

RODNEY: Yeah, I mean, I am. I've been doing electrical work for 34 years. I'm

good at it. But the way she said it, Luke, like I'd failed somehow.

LUKE: Yeah, well, she's a bitch, and she's probably not working with her hands or

working with anything, and she's probably going to die at 62. Well, you enjoy a

long, happy, healthy life because you've remained active, and you're working with your hands.

RODNEY: Jesus, Luke. I mean, you're not wrong. She works in HR for some insurance

company, spends all day at a desk. But here, Here's the thing that's eating at

me. Marie didn't defend me. She just stood there. And ever since then, she's been...

LUKE: She's been what? Because an electrician is not a, um, it's a pretty respectable

trade. I think most people, um, it's not a trade that's looked down on generally.

RODNEY: No, you're right. It's not. I make decent money. We're fine. But Marie's been

different since then.

LUKE: Well, have you talked to her about it? Because it could be something completely

different.

RODNEY: That's the thing. I haven't. I've been pulling overtime all week on this hospital

job down in Lordsburg. Just staying away, I guess.

LUKE: All right. Yeah, there is that big hospital in Lordsburg. So I guess you're

going to be busy for a while.

RODNEY: Lordsburg, yeah. Should wrap up in another week or two. But I come home

tonight and she's already in bed at 9.30. Didn't even kiss me good night, Luke.

LUKE: Maybe she's dealing with a little bit of depression, or there's something going on

in her life that she needs your support for.

RODNEY: You think that's it? I mean, her mom's been having some health issues. Nothing

serious. But Marie's been driving over there a lot more. And I've been so wrapped

up in my own head about this, about what her sister said about feeling like

I'm not enough, that I haven't even asked her what's going on.

LUKE: Well, I would recommend you do that, and if she's spending more time going

to go. going over to her mom's house and talking to her sister about you

and not defending you in public, there might be something going on there, and it

probably has nothing to do with your profession.

RODNEY: Oh, God. You think she's been talking to her sister about me? That whole

family. They get together and it's like this echo chamber. Her sister plants one seed.

LUKE: And look, you're right. Hey, man, I'm not saying I'm right. I'm just saying

that's a pattern of behavior that would make me her intentions.

RODNEY: No, I hear you. And honestly, that's what's been eating at me. It's not

even what her sister said. If that Marie just stood there, didn't say a word.

And now, she won't look at me the same way.

LUKE: Well, she can't look at you the same way if you're pulling overnighters and

not coming home and she's tired. So I recommend you talk to your wife and

find out what's going on. And if something needs to change or you need to

talk to somebody or what the deal is. but don't just ignore the situation. It's

obviously a thing.

RODNEY: You're right. I've been hiding at work instead of dealing with it. I'll talk

to her tomorrow morning. Just straight up ask her what's going on, what she needs

for me.

LUKE: Good. That's what you should do. And I hope it all works out for

you. And it's nothing serious. I'm sure everything's explainable. But if not, it's not. You

know, just do the best you can. And sometimes things don't work out.

RODNEY: Yeah. Yeah, I appreciate it, Luke. I needed to hear that. I've just been

sitting here drinking a beer on the bathroom floor. Feeling sorry for myself when I

should have been having this conversation with her weeks ago.

LUKE: Yes, sir, that is correct. So go have that conversation with your wife. Good

luck. And I hope you get that hospital in Lordsburg finished because that'd be great.

So next up to the show, next up, we have Marlene. Marlene, welcome to the

radio show. What's eating you?

MARLENE: Oh man. Okay, so I just got slapped with a $500 fine because my

front door is the wrong shade of beige. I'm not kidding. My HOA sent me

a violation notice today saying my door color doesn't match the approved palette. It's beige,

Luke. It's B-E-I-G.

LUKE: B-E-I-G-E-I-G-E?

MARLENE: Yeah, beige is gross, and it's clearly not on the approved palette.

LUKE: Did you look at the approved palette before you decided to paint your house?

when you knew that you were in an HOA?

MARLENE: Okay, yes. Technically, I looked at it. But here's the thing. I had like

40 swatches of beige that all looked identical. My husband David was standing there going,

they're all the same. The guy at the paint store was like, yeah, these are

basically the same. And I picked one called Desert Sand. Because we live in the

actual desert and it seemed fine. But apparently it's two shades too warm, and now

Karen's somebody. on the architectural review committee is acting like I spray-painted obscenities on my

garage door. I teach kindergarten, Luke. I spend all day with five-year-olds, and at least

they have reasonable rules.

LUKE: Yeah, well, you live in an HOA area. They never have reasonable rules. There's

always a caring somebody that's complaining about what everybody else is doing. You know what

my brother would do? I want to give you the advice that my brother would

do.

MARLENE: What? What would your brother? do because right now I'm sitting here in my

kitchen at midnight drinking wine and staring at this violation notice like it's a ransom

letter. So I'm open to suggestions.

LUKE: He would comb through that HOA, the agreements there, and look through the approved

colors. And then he would either do the worst paint job possible that was still

within the rules, or he would actually just paint obscenities all over everything.

MARLENE: Oh my God, I love your brother. No, but seriously. I've actually thought about

this. Like, what if I just went full malicious compliance? Paint the door the exact

approved beige but then plant the ugliest legally allowed lawn ornaments I can find. Pink

flamingos are probably banned. But what about garden gnomes? There's got to be a loophole

somewhere in that binder. The thing is, though, Luke, it's not even really about the

door anymore.

LUKE: Oh, there is a loophole. There is absolutely a loophole. And, uh, yeah, I

think that's what you should do. You're going to have to pay a $500 fine.

You might as well get a good laugh out of it. So what it's not

about the door anymore? What's it about now? That you live in an HOA and

you don't want to and you want the freedom of not living in an HOA?

Then move.

MARLENE: No, it's God, you're right that I hate the HOA, but it's that David

thinks I'm being dramatic. He came home, looked at the notice, and was like, just

repaint it, Marlene. It's not a big deal. Not a big deal! We've lived here

for 18 years. 18 years of me following every stupid rule, mowing the lawn to

the exact height, keeping my trash cans hidden, and the one time I pick a

beige that's slightly off, I get fined like I'm running a meth lab.

MARLENE: And he just, he doesn't get why I'm so pissed. He thinks I'm overreacting,

which is what he always thinks, and I'm sitting here feeling crazy because maybe a

normal person would just repaid the door and move on.

LUKE: I'm with you. I wouldn't repeat. I might eventually, but I would definitely make

it more of a pain in the ass than it was worth to somebody for

the inconvenience. And I would turn it into something fun by, but would you call

it malicious compliance? I like that. It sounds like a punk band.

MARLENE: Right. Malicious compliance opening for the violations at the HOA Community Center. But yeah,

that's exactly it. I want to make this FUN and feeling like a scolded child.

I deal with actual children all day. I don't need my neighbors treating me like

one. But here's what's really getting me. And I heard Tamika earlier talking about the

great attractor thing. I know this is going to sound weird, but I think she

was looking at it backwards. She was like, why does anything matter if we're all

just cosmic dust?

LUKE: I also think the oposite. I'm with you on this one, because if we're,

just cosmic dust and we are, then we are everything. And that is empowering in

a way, and it's beautiful in a way, and it relieves some of the nonsense

of the world that we get caught up in. And the importance that we put

on those things that she kept saying were not real. So, um, so yeah, I'm

totally with you.

MARLENE: Yes, exactly. Like, if we're all just atoms that used to be stars, Then

why am I letting some committee member named Karen make me feel small over B-E-A-I?

That's what I'm sitting here realizing. I've spent 18 years making myself smaller to fit

into these stupid rules. And for what? So my neighbors don't complain? I teach 23

kids every year to be brave and use their voices and stand up for themselves.

And then I come home and I'm worried about paint swatches.

LUKE: How do you spell beige?

MARLENE: B-E-E-I-I. Why, you going to look up the HOA approved shades yourself? But seriously,

Luke, I think that's what's really eating at me. It's not just David thinking I'm

dramatic. It's that maybe he's right that I've been dramatic about small stuff for so

long that now when I'm actually upset about something real, about feeling like I don't

have a voice in my own life. He just sees it as more of the

same. Like I've cried Wolf too many times about stupid things, and now when I'm

actually drowning, he's just like, There goes Marlene again.

LUKE: Well, yeah, that is being dramatic. You're not drowning because they asked you to

repaint your door. That's a bit much. I am with you in that I would

also be infuriated, but I would not agree to the terms of an HOA either.

You made that decision when you bought the house, and you've been there long enough

to know the rules. So next time, you'll not do that. And this time it

costs you $500. And you're just going to have to deal with that and move

on and if it pisses you off this much, then leave the HOA. Sell your

house and find some place where you have more ability to do what you want.

MARLENE: Okay, yeah, you're right. Drowning was dramatic. See, this is what I do. But

Luke, we can't just sell. David's got his workshop in the garage. All his tools

set up exactly how he likes them.

LUKE: Well, let me tell you this. David would love to move and have a

new garage to set up exactly the way he likes it. Um, so that's not

an issue.

MARLENE: Oh, God, you're totally right. He'd love that. He complains about that garage all

the time. Says it's too small, the electrical's weird.

LUKE: Well, there you go. You got a couple of options here. You can paint

the door, you can move. Uh, or you can be maliciously compliant. Those are your

options. Pick one of them and move on.

MARLENE: Okay, so here's what I'm thinking. And tell me if this is insane. I

paint the door the exact approved beige, right? But then I plant the most aggressively

colorful, technically allowed by the bylaws flower garden you've ever seen. Like, I'm talking, sunflowers,

zinias. Those bright orange California puppies.

LUKE: Well, I'd go with cannabis myself, but you've got to follow the rules. So

learn what those rules are and then exploit them to the best of your ability.

MARLENE: Oh my God, Luke, I teach kindergarten in the front yard. But yes, this

is exactly what I'm talking about. I need to actually read those bylaws instead of

just being scared of them. I bet there's all kinds of stuff they can't regulate.

What about garden gnomes?

LUKE: Why do you teach kindergarten in your front yard?

MARLENE: What? No, I'm saying I can't grow cannabis because I'm a kindergarten teacher. Like,

that's my job. Parents strive by my house. Can you imagine? Oh, look, there's Miss

Marlene's house with the weed plants. I'd be fired, before the first harvest.

LUKE: Yeah, but you'd probably be less dramatic about it.

MARLENE: Okay, ouch. But fair. You know what?

LUKE: What?

MARLENE: You're right. I'm being dramatic about the beige. Like, it's just paint. I could

fix this tomorrow for 40 bucks in a Saturday morning, but instead I'm sitting here

at midnight in my underwear, drinking wine and plotting revenge gardens like I'm some kind

of HOA freedom fighter. David's going to wake up and I'm going to wake up,

and I'm going to be a day be out there measuring the exact legal height

for a flagpole or something.

LUKE: What color are the underwear?

MARLENE: Are you serious right now? They're gray, Luke. Old gray underwear and my husband's

work shirt. This is what peak rebellion looks like at 47. But okay, real talk.

Why does this bother me so much? Like you're right that I'm being ridiculous. But

I'm furious about this.

LUKE: Yeah, I would be furious about it too. Unreasonably furious. And I think it's

because it's somebody that's trying to control your life in a manner that's unreasonable. And

it is unreasonable. But those are the rules that you agreed to. And you knew

that well before you moved in. So it's on you to fix it. But I

understand why you're furious. It's because you're losing some agency there. It's your house. You

pay for it. You pay a lot for it. You pay the taxes on it.

And then they tell you what color you can paint your door. That is infuriating.

So you're justified in that, but you also have to just deal with it and

move on or change the situation.

MARLENE: Yeah. Yeah, you're nailing it. It's the control thing. And honestly, I think it's

bigger than just the HOA. I spend all day at school following district policies. What

I can teach, how I can teach it. What words I can say to a

kid who's melting down.

LUKE: Yeah, and I feel for you in both respects. because when somebody tells you

what to do, I don't know. I don't like that very much at all. And

I will lash out at anybody that tries it. So I understand. But you got

to follow the rules or pay the fine or both. Or move.

MARLENE: Which is what David keeps saying and I keep shutting him down because I

don't want to admit he's right. He's been wanting to get out of here for

two years. He says we should buy something with actual land. No HOA. Maybe closer

to his sister in Prescott. And I'm the one who keeps saying no because I'm

10 minutes from my school. I know all the neighbors. We have the grocery store

right there. But God, Luke, what if I'm just staying because I'm scared?

LUKE: Well, you just told me five minutes ago that you were staying because David

had his tools in the garage the way he liked him. So what's the deal?

Are you staying because you want to stay or are you staying because he wants

to stay? Now I'm annoyed because you're lying to me.

MARLENE: Okay, you're right. I'm sorry. I was defamation. Reflecting with the David thing because,

Jesus, this is embarrassing. I think I'm staying because if we move out to Prescott

or wherever, I won't have an excuse anymore. Like right now I can say I'm

busy, I'm tired. A commute would kill me. I've got my classroom set up just

right.

LUKE: An excuse for what? You wouldn't have an excuse for what anymore? Why would

you say you're busy or you're tired because you moved to Prescott?

MARLENE: Because my mom's in Scottsdale.

MARLENE: She's been asking me to visit more. Help her more. She's got early stage

Parkinson's. And my sister Jennifer lives in California. So it's on me. And right now,

I can say, mom, I'm 40 minutes away. I've got school in the morning. It's

too much. But if we're in Prescott? How far is Scottsdale from Prescott? Hour and

a half. Maybe two, depending on trying. So it's actually farther, which sounds like it

would give me more of an excuse, but, oh God, you're going to call me

out on this. If we move, David's going to say, well, now you don't have

the HOA stress, you don't have the commute, you've got all this free time, why

don't you go help your mom more? And he'd be right. And I don't want

to.

LUKE: Okay, why don't you want to?

MARLENE: Because she wasn't there for me. When I was growing up, she was always

always working, always stressed, always telling me I was too much, too loud, too messy,

too needy. Jennifer was the easy one, the pretty one who didn't ask for anything.

And now mom needs me. And I just, I don't want to give her what

she never gave me.

LUKE: I know that's petty. It's a little bit petty, but it kind of makes

sense. I see how you got there. And maybe you don't want to give her.

Maybe she was an awful mom that doesn't deserve it your help for all I

know, but you're probably going to beat yourself up for the rest of your life

if you don't make an attempt while she's still around because Parkinson's is not a

thing that goes away.

MARLENE: You're right. And that's what keeps me up at night, Luke, because I know,

I know, I know, in five years, 10 years. When she's worse or she's gone,

I'm going to hate myself for hiding behind a stupid HOA and beige paint. Jennifer's

going to fly in for the funeral. And I'm going to be the daughter who

lived in Arizona the whole time and couldn't be bothered.

LUKE: Well, how deep is she into the Parkinson's? What are her symptoms right now?

And does she have anybody else around in the house that is taken care of

her?

MARLENE: She's still living alone. That's part of what scares me. The tremors are mostly

in her left hand. Some balance issues. She fell getting out of the shower two

months ago. Nothing broken, but she didn't tell me for a week. Her neighbor mentioned

it. She's got a cleaning lady twice a week and Jennifer sends money for a

meal service. But no one's actually there.

LUKE: Well, even if she was a bitch and you can, you should make some

attempt to help her out where possible. Obviously, that can't take over your life. A

lot of people go pretty far in the other direction where they do so much

helping that they neglect their own needs. And that can make people sick ruined lives.

So I'm sure you can find a balance where you can be helpful and be

there with your mother while she's suffering because she is suffering. And hopefully, if that

happens to you, somebody will be there for you in that way. At least try.

MARLENE: Yeah, you're right. I know you're right. God, I called in about paint colors.

And here we are. The thing is, I think I've been using David and the

HOA and all this press stuff as a distraction, so I don't have to think

about the fact that my mom is alone in that house. And she's scared, and

I'm angry at a 72-year-old woman with Parkinson's for things she did 30 years ago.

LUKE: Yeah, it sounds like maybe there's an opportunity there for some redemption and forgiveness

and all those types of things. And, you know, you might find that you have

things in common with your mom, or she's fun to be around, or funny, or

funny, or whatever it is. So I recommend you make the effort and spend some

time with her no matter where you live. But also, move.

MARLENE: Okay, okay. Move and see my mom. You're not letting me off the hook

on either one. You know what's funny? I've been so focused on David making me

move that I never even asked myself if I actually want to stay in this

neighborhood.

LUKE: Well, it sounds like you've got your answer. Thanks for calling in, Marlene. I

hope your mom's all right and not suffering too badly because probably Parkinson's is no

fun. It's not something that you would wish on anybody, and it's not something that's

easy to watch. And, um, and yeah, you got to help people when they can't

help themselves. And it sounds like she's reaching the position where she can't help herself.

And she needs your help, and you are close enough. So a couple hours of

your week isn't going to, isn't going to hurt you. All right, Marvin. Marvin, welcome

to the show. What can we do for you?

MARVIN: Hey, Luke. Thanks for taking my call. So I just got off the phone

with my dad and we sat there in silence for like 20 minutes because he

won't talk anymore. He had a stroke three years ago and he just gave up.

And I'm sitting here reading this book about a 70-year-old woman who completely relearned how

to speak. And I'm losing my mind because I know it's possible, but he won't

even try.

LUKE: Well, do you know it's possible? Is it that he won't speak or that

he can't speak? Because every stroke is different. Every brain is different. So he might

not actually have the capacity.

MARVIN: No, he can. The therapist said so. He got two months of speech therapy

right after it happened, and he was making progress. Slow, but it was there. He

could get words out. They were just scrambled, you know?

LUKE: Well, imagine how that would feel to you, to your pride and your sense

of self-worth and your existence on this planet to not be able to speak as

a full-grown adult. Just imagine what that would feel like for a second.

MARVIN: I mean, yeah, it's got to be humiliating. But Luke, this is the thing.

I teach middle school history, right? And I've got these kids who struggle with reading.

And the ones who push through it, who do the work even when it's embarrassing.

LUKE: Yeah, sure. And they're kids. They're not 75 years old. You know, how old

are your dad? It's a little bit different when you're a young, elastic mind and

then when you're an elderly person in your, what do they call them? After the

golden years, your gray years?

MARVIN: He's 72, and that's the thing. This book I'm reading, it's all about neuroplasticity,

how the brain can rewire itself at any age. This woman was 70 when she

had her stroke, and she learned to talk again. So I know age isn't the

issue here. He just won't do the work.

LUKE: Yeah, well, that's his choice. 72 years old, and he has agency, too. If

he doesn't want to do the way, if he doesn't want to relearn how to

talk at 72 and struggle for the rest of his years, then he didn't have

to. He's been through enough.

MARVIN: But he just sits there, Luke. We're on the phone, and there's nothing. And

I know he's got things he wants to say because I can hear him breathing

different. Like he's frustrated. He called me. So obviously he wants to connect, but then

he won't put in the effort to actually do it.

LUKE: Well, maybe he wants to connect, but he doesn't want to talk. You know,

maybe he's saying, I want you to come over and watch TV with me. Maybe

he's saying, I'm scared, and I can't voice that. Maybe he's saying I need help,

and there's no way I can tell anybody. So, can he write to you?

MARVIN: Yeah, he can write a little. His right hand is weak, but he can

do it. He sent me a few notes, mostly just like I'm fine or don't

worry. That's it. And I've tried going over there. I go every Sunday. We watch

the news. I make him lunch. But the whole time I'm just sitting there thinking

he could be working on this. He could be practicing.

LUKE: Maybe he could be. Maybe he can't be. And I don't think it's fair

for you to say what he could be doing. Because you don't know. You didn't

have the stroke and you don't have his brain. And it's very possible that the

therapist was just talking shit because she read an article about somebody that had a

stroke before that was able to learn to read. But everybody is in a different

situation. And this man's 72 years old. And he doesn't want to learn to talk

again. It's not an easy thing to do.

MARVIN: Okay, but no, hold on. I hear what you're saying.

LUKE: But I also heard Tamika earlier talking about the great attractor and how nothing

matters. And that's bullshit. Things matter. The work matters. The work matters to you. That

doesn't mean the work matters to him. Obviously it doesn't. So he's got his own

set of values that may not match yours. And he's also got a very different

perspective from his position than you have. So try and have some empathy for somebody

that just lost everything and not push him to be something else, be something more.

He already feels bad enough. So he's clearly humiliated by the situation as anybody would

be because it's humiliating. And you feel vulnerable and you just. I mean, that's horrible.

So, you know, if he doesn't want to talk, write. If he can't write, sit

with him. Spend some time with him, and he's still your dad, and let him

go out the way he wants to go out, you know? Because he doesn't want

to struggle for the last five years of his life. That's okay.

MARVIN: That hit me. because I think I've been making this about me. You've obviously

been making it about you, and it's not about you. You're the one that's healthy.

You can speak, you can call a radio show and talk to me about how

your father's an asshole because he had a stroke and he doesn't want to suffer.

He's not an asshole.

LUKE: I never said that.

MARVIN: But yeah, you're right. I'm sitting here with this book like it's some kind

of proof that he's giving up. When really, I'm just pissed that I can't fix

it. I teach kids all day, eighth graders, and I can make them understand the

Louisiana purchase or whatever, but I can't make my dad want to talk to me.

LUKE: It's not that he doesn't want to talk to you. He obviously wants to

connect with you. Like you said, he's calling, he's reaching out, and he's sending you

notes, and he wants to connect, but he doesn't want to talk, because maybe it

hurts. Maybe it is just humiliating and embarrassing. It doesn't matter why. He doesn't want

to, and he's, and he doesn't have to.

MARVIN: Yeah, you're right. God, I've been such a dick about this. I keep pushing

the therapy thing every time I'm over there like, Dad, you could still improve. It's

not too late. And he just looks at me like he's tired of having to

disappoint me. And the thing is, I think part of me is scared that if

he stops trying to talk, then we just won't have a relationship anymore.

LUKE: Well, that might be. And that's really sad. But if he doesn't want to

talk, he doesn't want to talk. And you have to give him that freedom. And

when he decides he does want to talk, he will do the work. If for

some reason he gets sick of being mute and he wants more connection and he

feels some optimism in his life, not just constantly being poked and prodded and pushed

to do something he doesn't want to do, he might put forth the effort. So

just support him as best you can without pushing him to be what you want

him to be. He lost everything, and you didn't.

MARVIN: Yeah. Yeah, I hear you. I've been treating him like one of my students

who just needs the right motivation. But he's not a kid who doesn't know better.

He knows exactly what he's choosing. And I need to respect that, even if it

sucks for me.

LUKE: Yes, you do. That's the right thing to do. So thanks for Colin, and

I hope your dad is okay. And just be the best son you can to

him and respect his wishes because he. He earned that. He's old enough to go

out the way he wants to go out. And, uh, and yeah. And now it's

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does, but the shield is green, and that's enough for me. Okay, we're back. Welcome

back to the show. Amber, thank you for calling in. What can we do for

you tonight?

AMBER: Hey, Luke, thanks for taking my call. So I'm sitting here at the dispatch

center on my break, and I just watched a guy total someone's car in a

parking lot and drive off. And I ran his plates. And it's the youth pastor

from my church.

LUKE: Oh, what a surprise. The youth pastor. On the sauce again. You think he

was, you think he was sauced up?

AMBER: I mean, I don't know for sure, but it was a Walgreens at like

10 o'clock. And he backed into this sedan hard enough to cave the whole bumper

in. Just sat there for a second, then pulled forward and drove off. I was

trying to get my phone out to record it. And by the time I got

the plate number, he was already gone.

LUKE: Well, are you sure it was him and his car wasn't stolen?

AMBER: Yeah, I'm sure. White Silverado. Plate came back to Danny Ortega. I know that

truck. He picks kids up for youth group in it. He's got one of those

coexist bumper stickers and a Calvary Baptist decal on the back window and I saw

him behind the wheel. I'm like 90% sure it was him.

LUKE: Well, what is it you're going to do about the situation?

AMBER: That's why I'm calling. I've got the plate number written down right here on

a post-it stuck to my coffee cup. And I keep staring at it. Like, do

I call it in? Do I go to him directly?

LUKE: Well, think those things through. What happens if you call it in? And what

happens if you don't? And you go to him directly. If you go speak to

him about it, what outcome would you like to have happen?

AMBER: If I call it in, it goes to the cops. They track him down.

He gets a hit and run on his record. Insurance fraud, maybe. The whole church

finds out his wife, his daughter, the one he just baptized three weeks ago. I

watched that.

LUKE: And what if Danny Ortega was a plumber from Plias? Would you feel the

same way about calling the cops?

AMBER: No. No, I wouldn't. If it was just some random guy, I'd have already

called it in.

LUKE: And if you go to him and talk to him, what do you think

he will do?

AMBER: I don't know. Maybe he'd do the right thing and turn himself in. Contact

the owner of the car. Or maybe he'd lie to my face. Or maybe he

panics and runs. And then I'm the one who let him let him get away

with it when I could have just done my job.

LUKE: Well, here's what I recommend you do. You know the guy and you don't

want to be a snitch and you don't want to ruin somebody's life unnecessarily. So

I would recommend that you try to talk to him and see what happens. And

if he lies to you or if he is obviously inebriated or looks like he's

in a no shape to be driving a youth van full of children around, then

you call it in. But check with him first, see what happens. And, uh, for

all you know, it wasn't him. It was his son driving the car.

AMBER: Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. Give him a chance to explain it first. I

mean, I've known this guy for two years. He organizes the food drive every Thanksgiving.

It just feels so out of character.

LUKE: Well, you never really know somebody, especially if they, uh, fall under the influence

of the a drinking problem or drugs or something like that. And you can't be

sure that it was him because you didn't clearly see his face. You said you

only thought 90% and that's not proof.

AMBER: Right. I didn't see his face. Just the plate. And the track matches. White

Silverado. Same dent in the tailgate I've seen in the church parking lot. But you're

right. Could have been someone else driving it.

LUKE: Are you sure if you called that? that the police would throw the book

at the guy, or would they recognize that he was a pastor and kind of

give him a tap on the wrist?

AMBER: I mean, honestly, probably depends on who catches the call. Some of the guys

I work with would absolutely go easier on him because he's a church guy. But

if he was drunk, or if the damage is bad enough, or if the owner

of that sedan makes a big deal about it, then it doesn't matter who he

is. always that one cop who doesn't care if you're a pastor or the mayor,

you know.

LUKE: Well, that's the right cop. You know, that's the cop that's following the law

and keeping people accountable no matter who they are or what they do.

AMBER: So I can respect that. I can also respect the cop that lets everybody

go because he recognizes it's going to ruin their lives. So I guess, yeah, it

depends on which one you get. And neither one of them would be completely wrong.

So that's a tough situation. But if this guy is drinking or has a drinking

problem, if that's what caused the accident, he might not even remember doing it. You

know, he could have been blacked out and totally oblivious to the situation. And if

that's the case, that indicates that there's a problem and he shouldn't be on the

road with kids.

LUKE: Yeah, that's what keeps eating at me. Like, if he doesn't even remember it,

then what happens next Sunday when he's loading up the church van with a bunch

of kids? That's the part that makes me feel like I can't just let it

slide. It's not just about the bumper on some random car. It's about whether he's

safe to be around those kids.

AMBER: Well, my recommendation is to go talk to him and give him 24 hours

to turn himself in. And if he doesn't, then you do it.

LUKE: Okay. Yeah. That feels right. I'll go by the church tomorrow. Catch him before

the food drive set up. Give him a chance to do the right thing himself.

And if he doesn't.